I appreciate that you are vegan and are doing you best to help the animals.
You wrote: "You seem to have more compassion and forgiveness for this mass murderer/profiteer than you do for fellow vegans."
That is very unfair and it is competely misrepresenting Adrienne Gates position. She has already refuted this. It is not right and not nice to accuse other persons of their intentions and to judge their heart. To judge someone's intention and the attitude of a person's heart is violence towards a person's character. You also do the same at other parts of your post. Adrienne has already picked a side, she is on the side of all living beings, she is defending their rights. She is opposed to the violence of the perpetrator, and to violence and hatred against the perpetrators of violence. That is how it should be (see the links below).
Look now, I am not judging you or your intentions. I think you are also trying your best to be a good ethical person. We are all at different stages in our journey and in our connectedness to all beings and in our inner wisdom.
One can be completely angered and outraged of the cruelty in this world without hating the persons commiting these actions. Hatred and violence (like wishing someone dead) towards a person doesn't solve anything. Violence - violence in thoughts, words and actions - is never ethical.
Hatred and violence, apart from being wrong, drains a person's energy, and doesn't contribute to making this world vegan.
I recommend you all to read this: http://bloganders.blogspot.no/2013/04/veganism-love-compassion-and-non.html
and this http://www.worldpeacediet.com/ (prayers for the animals), and this: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/a-comment-on-violence/#.UXJRv8qwD-E
So can please everyone stop judging people's intentions; and lets just have non-judgemental disussions of love and compassion that discusses issues, instead of a discussion that is accusing people of attitudes and viewpoints and attitudes of heart, that people don't possess.
Love and peace to everyone, Anders
A.G. wrote:
Johan Agstam, the video is not anything I would agree with... the article, I felt was spot on. Thanks for posting.
@WesternVegan WinterWolf, hello, nice to meet you too. lol Since my very recently joining this group, there have been so many misunderstandings. I'm new in this group, I've introduced myself accordingly, and am genuinely happy to meet positive people, share recipes, tips, stories etc about the joys of being vegan. I'm not a troll but I'm also not at war with meat eaters, and I won't be painted into a corner simply because of misunderstandings or differences of opinion. My being a vegan is absolutely not to be called into question. You don't know what actions I take on a daily basis to help animals, nor should you judge me based on how vegan you think I am. This group says it's open to those who are curious about becoming vegan... now as for the question of whether or not I am willing to support groups who advocate things like property damage etc, I am not. I have the right not to support plugging into negative sentiments/actions. Harming property etc gets very little or absolutely nothing done imo, for people or animals. So if you feel differently, that's your right. I will not try to change you, as I know I will not be successful. Rather I will change myself, I will continue to grow, and I will share my thoughts as I feel they're applicable.
I see anger as a natural human emotion. I do think that it can be channeled and can fuel action that's positive and that is a productive thing. I'm not on any fence, I simply choose to make an impact in a different way than yourself or perhaps VeganMercy Angel Wolf, (who has shared a kind greeting and information with me about herself,) I promise you, I don't hate or loathe her, I just disagree with her viewpoint, which she invited me to do via the wording in her post... I answered honestly. I make no apology for saying I can love someone even if I disagree with them or their lifestyle. I am not interested in arguing with anyone in a group that's about something I consider very personal, which is specifically based on compassion. I promise you I don't feel anything but hackles up concerning my comments, so why would I want to stick around to 'learn' anything? One cannot learn anything but to put up a boundary if one feels attacked, so I would ask simply that you not attack me. We don't know each other. There is no need to be at odds with one another. I don't judge my community as one that is limited to vegans vs non vegans. As many here have pointed out, including VeganMercy Angel Wolf, I myself used to consume dairy, even meat occasionally- so I don't forget that. I understand because I myself was there- what patience and kindness can do as opposed to an exclusionary approach. As I mentioned, I especially would never choose to be 'violent' or 'damage property', but I am also not passive in the sense that I do nothing to help animals. So thank you for the dialog and the time spent, the information I've gathered will not be soon forgotten.
Anders Branderud, well spoken
----
Adrienne Gates My
final take? We all have our own path, we all stop breathing one day...
why wish harm on others? That's all l have to offer. I am not perfect, I
get angry, I forgive, I love animals.....
My analogy was explained as clearly as possible, and I feel it's perhaps not been understood. If that's not the case, I am happy to be misunderstood, but not have my words called drivel etc. I'm tired. I need to go to bed. I can't say I understand all of the misunderstandings here anymore, there are more than one.
The analogy of shooting a dog for barking was intended to say- I would no more wish a person dead for behaving like a person, than I would wish a dog dead for behaving like a dog. I wish neither. I wish nothing and no one dead. In other words, and let me be clear- I do not wish death on others in moments of anger. I get angry yes. I do act on that anger once I've processed it and decided a correct course of action. I don't condone the video posted and that was the part about property damage etc. that I was addressing. As for not 'really' wishing anyone harm, I was clear on that as well. I said, I do not believe wishing anyone dead does anything productive. That's all. Difference of opinion. I can and do act in many tangible ways on behalf of those without a voice. Wishing anyone dead has never gotten me anywhere. So that is not my personal path. I applaud everyone here for your convictions, I just don't agree w/ you 100%. That's ok. That's part of the diversity of the movement, and hopefully our strength. We shouldn't be at each other's throats, and so as I said before, if anything I said was misunderstood I can only hope for the space to be allowed for people to actually have differences here.
Now seriously, if I'm not as clear as I could be it's because I'm really very tired and have to get up early. Please excuse me.
_____________________________
VeganMercy Angel Wolf, your post made me think of one of my favorites....
William Cullen Bryant. 1794–1878
16. Thanatopsis
TO HIM who in the love of Nature holds
Communion with her visible forms, she speaks
A various language; for his gayer hours
She has a voice of gladness, and a smile
And eloquence of beauty, and she glides 5
Into his darker musings, with a mild
And healing sympathy, that steals away
Their sharpness, ere he is aware. When thoughts
Of the last bitter hour come like a blight
Over thy spirit, and sad images 10
Of the stern agony, and shroud, and pall,
And breathless darkness, and the narrow house,
Make thee to shudder, and grow sick at heart;—
Go forth under the open sky, and list
To Nature's teachings, while from all around— 15
Earth and her waters, and the depths of air—
Comes a still voice—Yet a few days, and thee
The all-beholding sun shall see no more
In all his course; nor yet in the cold ground,
Where thy pale form was laid, with many tears, 20
Nor in the embrace of ocean, shall exist
Thy image. Earth, that nourished thee, shall claim
Thy growth, to be resolved to earth again,
And, lost each human trace, surrendering up
Thine individual being, shalt thou go 25
To mix forever with the elements;
To be a brother to the insensible rock,
And to the sluggish clod, which the rude swain
Turns with his share, and treads upon. The oak
Shall send his roots abroad, and pierce thy mould. 30
Yet not to thine eternal resting-place
Shalt thou retire alone, nor couldst thou wish
Couch more magnificent. Thou shalt lie down
With patriarchs of the infant world,—with kings,
The powerful of the earth,—the wise, the good, 35
Fair forms, and hoary seers of ages past,
All in one mighty sepulchre. The hills
Rock-ribbed and ancient as the sun; the vales
Stretching in pensive quietness between;
The venerable woods—rivers that move 40
In majesty, and the complaining brooks
That make the meadows green; and, poured round all,
Old Ocean's gray and melancholy waste,—
Are but the solemn decorations all
Of the great tomb of man! The golden sun, 45
The planets, all the infinite host of heaven,
Are shining on the sad abodes of death,
Through the still lapse of ages. All that tread
The globe are but a handful to the tribes
That slumber in its bosom.—Take the wings 50
Of morning, pierce the Barcan wilderness,
Or lose thyself in the continuous woods
Where rolls the Oregon, and hears no sound,
Save his own dashings,—yet the dead are there:
And millions in those solitudes, since first 55
The flight of years began, have laid them down
In their last sleep—the dead reign there alone.
So shalt thou rest; and what if thou withdraw
In silence from the living, and no friend
Take note of thy departure? All that breathe 60
Will share thy destiny. The gay will laugh
When thou art gone, the solemn brood of care
Plod on, and each one as before will chase
His favorite phantom; yet all these shall leave
Their mirth and their employments, and shall come 65
And make their bed with thee. As the long train
Of ages glide away, the sons of men,
The youth in life's green spring, and he who goes
In the full strength of years, matron and maid,
The speechless babe, and the gray-headed man— 70
Shall one by one be gathered to thy side
By those, who in their turn shall follow them.
So live, that when thy summons comes to join
The innumerable caravan which moves
To that mysterious realm, where each shall take 75
His chamber in the silent halls of death,
Thou go not, like the quarry-slave at night,
Scourged to his dungeon, but, sustained and soothed
By an unfaltering trust, approach thy grave
Like one who wraps the drapery of his couch 80
About him, and lies down to pleasant dreams.
My analogy was explained as clearly as possible, and I feel it's perhaps not been understood. If that's not the case, I am happy to be misunderstood, but not have my words called drivel etc. I'm tired. I need to go to bed. I can't say I understand all of the misunderstandings here anymore, there are more than one.
The analogy of shooting a dog for barking was intended to say- I would no more wish a person dead for behaving like a person, than I would wish a dog dead for behaving like a dog. I wish neither. I wish nothing and no one dead. In other words, and let me be clear- I do not wish death on others in moments of anger. I get angry yes. I do act on that anger once I've processed it and decided a correct course of action. I don't condone the video posted and that was the part about property damage etc. that I was addressing. As for not 'really' wishing anyone harm, I was clear on that as well. I said, I do not believe wishing anyone dead does anything productive. That's all. Difference of opinion. I can and do act in many tangible ways on behalf of those without a voice. Wishing anyone dead has never gotten me anywhere. So that is not my personal path. I applaud everyone here for your convictions, I just don't agree w/ you 100%. That's ok. That's part of the diversity of the movement, and hopefully our strength. We shouldn't be at each other's throats, and so as I said before, if anything I said was misunderstood I can only hope for the space to be allowed for people to actually have differences here.
Now seriously, if I'm not as clear as I could be it's because I'm really very tired and have to get up early. Please excuse me.
_____________________________
VeganMercy Angel Wolf, your post made me think of one of my favorites....
William Cullen Bryant. 1794–1878
16. Thanatopsis
TO HIM who in the love of Nature holds
Communion with her visible forms, she speaks
A various language; for his gayer hours
She has a voice of gladness, and a smile
And eloquence of beauty, and she glides 5
Into his darker musings, with a mild
And healing sympathy, that steals away
Their sharpness, ere he is aware. When thoughts
Of the last bitter hour come like a blight
Over thy spirit, and sad images 10
Of the stern agony, and shroud, and pall,
And breathless darkness, and the narrow house,
Make thee to shudder, and grow sick at heart;—
Go forth under the open sky, and list
To Nature's teachings, while from all around— 15
Earth and her waters, and the depths of air—
Comes a still voice—Yet a few days, and thee
The all-beholding sun shall see no more
In all his course; nor yet in the cold ground,
Where thy pale form was laid, with many tears, 20
Nor in the embrace of ocean, shall exist
Thy image. Earth, that nourished thee, shall claim
Thy growth, to be resolved to earth again,
And, lost each human trace, surrendering up
Thine individual being, shalt thou go 25
To mix forever with the elements;
To be a brother to the insensible rock,
And to the sluggish clod, which the rude swain
Turns with his share, and treads upon. The oak
Shall send his roots abroad, and pierce thy mould. 30
Yet not to thine eternal resting-place
Shalt thou retire alone, nor couldst thou wish
Couch more magnificent. Thou shalt lie down
With patriarchs of the infant world,—with kings,
The powerful of the earth,—the wise, the good, 35
Fair forms, and hoary seers of ages past,
All in one mighty sepulchre. The hills
Rock-ribbed and ancient as the sun; the vales
Stretching in pensive quietness between;
The venerable woods—rivers that move 40
In majesty, and the complaining brooks
That make the meadows green; and, poured round all,
Old Ocean's gray and melancholy waste,—
Are but the solemn decorations all
Of the great tomb of man! The golden sun, 45
The planets, all the infinite host of heaven,
Are shining on the sad abodes of death,
Through the still lapse of ages. All that tread
The globe are but a handful to the tribes
That slumber in its bosom.—Take the wings 50
Of morning, pierce the Barcan wilderness,
Or lose thyself in the continuous woods
Where rolls the Oregon, and hears no sound,
Save his own dashings,—yet the dead are there:
And millions in those solitudes, since first 55
The flight of years began, have laid them down
In their last sleep—the dead reign there alone.
So shalt thou rest; and what if thou withdraw
In silence from the living, and no friend
Take note of thy departure? All that breathe 60
Will share thy destiny. The gay will laugh
When thou art gone, the solemn brood of care
Plod on, and each one as before will chase
His favorite phantom; yet all these shall leave
Their mirth and their employments, and shall come 65
And make their bed with thee. As the long train
Of ages glide away, the sons of men,
The youth in life's green spring, and he who goes
In the full strength of years, matron and maid,
The speechless babe, and the gray-headed man— 70
Shall one by one be gathered to thy side
By those, who in their turn shall follow them.
So live, that when thy summons comes to join
The innumerable caravan which moves
To that mysterious realm, where each shall take 75
His chamber in the silent halls of death,
Thou go not, like the quarry-slave at night,
Scourged to his dungeon, but, sustained and soothed
By an unfaltering trust, approach thy grave
Like one who wraps the drapery of his couch 80
About him, and lies down to pleasant dreams.
