Djurskyddsorganisationer som hävdar 'Animalia godkänner den symbiotiska samlevnaden mellan människa och djur, som båda drar nytta av. Vi förhåller oss dock mycket kritiskt till dagens effektiva djurproduktion' är en del av problemet, inte en del av lösningen. De får människor att känna sig bekväma med förtrycket av djur, och förevigar samhället syn att det är okej att använda sig av djur t.ex. för föda, så länge som de har blivit "bra behandlade". Det är det största hindret till att få människor att inse att veganism är det enda etiska rätta. Här finns ett annat exempel på en sådan kampanj från en annan djurskyddsorganisation och hur den påverkar samhällets syn på djur:
http://bloganders.blogspot.no/2013/05/djurskyddsorganisationer-ar-en-del-av.html
Bra citat från Abolitionist Approach:
"Adventures in Animal Welfare and Promoting "Happy" Exploitation Down Under
Här följer ett exempel med hur djurskyddsföreningar förespråkar "lycklig exploatering" av djur:
Here we have Animals Australia all excited about the fact that Coles
supermarkets are going to have bags promoting the AA factory-farm
campaign.
http://www.makeitpossible.com/features/make-it-possible-shopper-bags-coles.php
Consider the language:
"This means millions of people doing their weekly shop will be reminded
where and when it matters most about the kind choices they can make to
improve the lives of animals raised for food."
Comment: "kind
choices": consumers are being told by an "animal rights" group that it's
morally acceptable to buy "happy" meat. Eating the products of "happy"
exploitation is a "kind" choice.
"Since the launch of this
world-first public awareness campaign, many Australians have been
shocked to learn that animals raised for food in Australia are denied
the same legal protections as our pets at home, purely for commercial
reasons. This sees 500 million chickens, layer hens and pigs severely
confined in factory farms each year. The goal of Make it Possible is one
that everyone from all walks of life can agree with — that animals
raised for food should have protection from cruel treatment and be
afforded a life worth living."
Comment: this clearly
implies--indeed, it states--that we can exploit animals in a way that
affords them "a life worth living" and one that is free from "cruel"
treatment. Just buy Coles' "happy" animal products.
"Coles, as
one of Australia's major retailers, has led the way in implementing
animal welfare improvements in its supply chains. Coles is the first
major supermarket retailer to remove sow stalls from its supply chains,
and commit to phasing out cage eggs from its home brand egg range. We
are delighted that Coles is helping generate awareness of Make it
Possible by having our shopper bags in store. They serve as an inspiring
reminder of the power we have as consumers to demand a better life for
farm animals through the choices we make every day."
Comment:
the goal is to "demand a better life for farm animals" and this can be
accomplished by buying the "happy" meat and animal products--sold at
Coles'.
Come on, folks, get with it. Why do you think Coles is
doing this? Because they are a corporation concerned about morality? If
you believe that, there is a bridge that connects Manhattan to Brooklyn
that I would like to sell you. They are doing it because they want to
sell "happy" meat, eggs, milk, cheese, etc. And Animals Australia is
helping them do so.
If you think that this is helping to
eradicate animal exploitation, you are in error. All this does is make
to ensure that the public feels more comfortable about animal
exploitation.
How very sad.
"
Citat från https://www.facebook.com/abolitionistapproach?fref=ts
fredag 31 maj 2013
Israel -land of milk and honey? Animal exploitation and myths
Hello
Have a nice journey in Israel!!
“land of milk n honey, here I come!! “
Speaking of milk, have you ever thought of what is involved in the milking process? In order to milk animals, wild animals who all want to live in freedom had to be domesticated. Someone had to confine them and steal their freedom, and to breed them and enslave them. I wish that we could extend love and compassion to all living beings and make vegan choices that doesn’t hurt other living beings. For all living beings want to live and don’t want to get killed, exploited and enslaved by us, and all living beings have the right to live and not to get killed and exploited by us. i recommend these articles: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/what-michael-vick-taught-us/ and www.vegankit.com
Have a nice journey in Israel!!
“land of milk n honey, here I come!! “
Speaking of milk, have you ever thought of what is involved in the milking process? In order to milk animals, wild animals who all want to live in freedom had to be domesticated. Someone had to confine them and steal their freedom, and to breed them and enslave them. I wish that we could extend love and compassion to all living beings and make vegan choices that doesn’t hurt other living beings. For all living beings want to live and don’t want to get killed, exploited and enslaved by us, and all living beings have the right to live and not to get killed and exploited by us. i recommend these articles: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/what-michael-vick-taught-us/ and www.vegankit.com
"Joseph Campbell, when asked the reason for myths by Bill Moyer, said
that the main reason for myths and stories is to somehow reconcile our
abuse and killing of animals for food. We create enormous rituals with
religious significance because I think we feel guilty about confining
animals. The worst thing you can do to a being is put them in prison;
putting someone in jail is a punishment. These cows are owned. Their
sovereignty is stolen from them by human beings so they can have their
milk. They are not allowed to live their lives freely in nature and we
would all like to be able to live our lives freely. I think there is no
need, personally, for ghee to be healthy. Certainly there are many
cultures that survive without having ghee. In the fullness of time,
hopefully this will be seen to be something we can let go of. I would
like to see cows returning to sovereignty again, how they lived for
millions of years."
[Quote: http://layogamagazine.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=638 ]
Veganism is not elitism, discrimination against species is elitism
Kristen S Aldrich ,
“My family is differently dieted from me and we make compromises, why am I automatically un-compassionate and violent.””
It is not about you and your intentions; it is about the choices you make. I certainly believe you are very goodhearted. However, goodhearted people, just like I believe non-vegan people are in general, do make violent choices that certainly doesn’t demonstrate love and compassion toward our nonhuman fellow sentient earthlings. I did it myself. I became a vegan last autumn after almost 28 years of thinking that it was right to hurt and kill animals for trivial and unnecessary reasons such as food (when we know everyone can survive and thrive on a vegan diet, see below). How can you love and demonstrate compassion toward an individual that you enslave, hurt and kill for food. They value their lives as much as we value our lives. Why can’t we respect their fundamental and basic right to live?
Btw, all animal products, not only meat, is causing the enslavement, exploitation and killing of nonhuman animals. E.g. milk cows are heavily exploited and usually get killed when they are 5 years old in the milk industry, after a live of misery, and getting their calves stolen after each pregnancy, in order so that man can take the milk of the cows. Learn more here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg3Yfdbs24I&feature=player_embedded
Humans evolved eating a starch-based diet (many ate some animal products) (see: http://www.drmcdougall.com/video/starch_solution.html ), however this isn’t relevant for the morality. We have the choice and opportunity to eat a vegan diet, and choosing not to do so, is inflicting unnecessary suffering and death upon our fellow sentient earthlings.
All people can get all nutrition they need on a vegan diet: http://www.drmcdougall.com/
“I can't force them to change their entire lifestyle for my morals.”
Hurting and killing other sentient beings for animal products isn’t any subjective moral-issue, it is about our obligations in our treatment of non-human animals. You probably agree with me that animal abuse is morally wrong, and to follow what you believe in morally, necessitates going vegan: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/a-note-about-michael-vick/#.UajvlJxc18E
It is not elitism, just like be against racisism, hetrosexim, sexism and any other discrimination, isn’t elitism. All opposition against discrimination is certainly without compromise.
“Also I was raised by hunters, animals dying doesn't really bother me.” This is just because you are disconnected to who the animals, what they feel and their inherent moral rights. This is the case for every exploitation and discrimination, that the person inflicting harm upon another being is disconnected to the victim, and doesn’t understand the suffering and violence he/she is inflicting and how it effect the victim.
Write this in all well-meaning. Only veganism will make us and all the animals truly free, a non-discriminatory, nonviolent and compassionate lifestyle to all living beings is the only way for peace. As long as we sow suffering and violence towards our fellow earthlings, our culture will be inflicted by violence.
“My family is differently dieted from me and we make compromises, why am I automatically un-compassionate and violent.””
It is not about you and your intentions; it is about the choices you make. I certainly believe you are very goodhearted. However, goodhearted people, just like I believe non-vegan people are in general, do make violent choices that certainly doesn’t demonstrate love and compassion toward our nonhuman fellow sentient earthlings. I did it myself. I became a vegan last autumn after almost 28 years of thinking that it was right to hurt and kill animals for trivial and unnecessary reasons such as food (when we know everyone can survive and thrive on a vegan diet, see below). How can you love and demonstrate compassion toward an individual that you enslave, hurt and kill for food. They value their lives as much as we value our lives. Why can’t we respect their fundamental and basic right to live?
Btw, all animal products, not only meat, is causing the enslavement, exploitation and killing of nonhuman animals. E.g. milk cows are heavily exploited and usually get killed when they are 5 years old in the milk industry, after a live of misery, and getting their calves stolen after each pregnancy, in order so that man can take the milk of the cows. Learn more here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg3Yfdbs24I&feature=player_embedded
Humans evolved eating a starch-based diet (many ate some animal products) (see: http://www.drmcdougall.com/video/starch_solution.html ), however this isn’t relevant for the morality. We have the choice and opportunity to eat a vegan diet, and choosing not to do so, is inflicting unnecessary suffering and death upon our fellow sentient earthlings.
All people can get all nutrition they need on a vegan diet: http://www.drmcdougall.com/
“I can't force them to change their entire lifestyle for my morals.”
Hurting and killing other sentient beings for animal products isn’t any subjective moral-issue, it is about our obligations in our treatment of non-human animals. You probably agree with me that animal abuse is morally wrong, and to follow what you believe in morally, necessitates going vegan: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/a-note-about-michael-vick/#.UajvlJxc18E
It is not elitism, just like be against racisism, hetrosexim, sexism and any other discrimination, isn’t elitism. All opposition against discrimination is certainly without compromise.
“Also I was raised by hunters, animals dying doesn't really bother me.” This is just because you are disconnected to who the animals, what they feel and their inherent moral rights. This is the case for every exploitation and discrimination, that the person inflicting harm upon another being is disconnected to the victim, and doesn’t understand the suffering and violence he/she is inflicting and how it effect the victim.
Write this in all well-meaning. Only veganism will make us and all the animals truly free, a non-discriminatory, nonviolent and compassionate lifestyle to all living beings is the only way for peace. As long as we sow suffering and violence towards our fellow earthlings, our culture will be inflicted by violence.
A vegan healthy diet, the best for children
My reply to person:
Kristen, Hello, I would like to comment on what you wrote.
It is not selfish to feed a child a vegan diet. A vegan diet is a diet of love and compassion and nonviolence. Children love animals and don’t want them to die and suffer. We should respect the lives of the animals, respect the purpose of the animals, and stop harming other sentient beings. They also have a moral value and a right to live, and we need to respect their rights and their lives. We need to teach children and everyone else to respect and love everyone. For further reading I recommend http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/a-note-about-michael-vick/ and www.vegankit.com
A vegan starch-based organic diet without GMO’s costs much less than a diet of animal products, both money-wise, and also for the animals and for our planets. One can learn more here: http://www.drmcdougall.com
An animal product-based diet is heavily subsidized, yet it is more expensive than a home cooked vegan diet with the bulk of potatoes, lentils, and other starches.
One can survive and thrive on a vegan diet – and it is much more healthy than an animal product-based diet both for us and certainly for the other animals who don’t get killed and abused because of someone's eating habits - of only potatoes and possibly an additional B12-supplement.
Kristen, Hello, I would like to comment on what you wrote.
It is not selfish to feed a child a vegan diet. A vegan diet is a diet of love and compassion and nonviolence. Children love animals and don’t want them to die and suffer. We should respect the lives of the animals, respect the purpose of the animals, and stop harming other sentient beings. They also have a moral value and a right to live, and we need to respect their rights and their lives. We need to teach children and everyone else to respect and love everyone. For further reading I recommend http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/a-note-about-michael-vick/ and www.vegankit.com
A vegan starch-based organic diet without GMO’s costs much less than a diet of animal products, both money-wise, and also for the animals and for our planets. One can learn more here: http://www.drmcdougall.com
An animal product-based diet is heavily subsidized, yet it is more expensive than a home cooked vegan diet with the bulk of potatoes, lentils, and other starches.
One can survive and thrive on a vegan diet – and it is much more healthy than an animal product-based diet both for us and certainly for the other animals who don’t get killed and abused because of someone's eating habits - of only potatoes and possibly an additional B12-supplement.
torsdag 30 maj 2013
Healthy vegan cats and vegan cat food?
First listen to this:
http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/follow-up-to-pets-commentary-non-vegan-cats/
and this: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/animal-rights-and-domesticated-nonhumans/#.UaeaZ5xc18E
and this: http://bloganders.blogspot.no/2013/03/vegan-diet-for-dogs-and-cats-what-is.html
Also: FYI: http://www.farmedanimalfriends.org/1/post/2013/05/the-vegan-feline-can-my-feline-companion-be-a-vegan-by-laurie-jeffreys-dvm.html
On Vegan Cats:
I got a very interesting and informative PM on this subject this morning:
"Concerning cat nutrition:
1) I keep seeing people who call cats obligate carnivores. While cats are carnivore in nature, we cannot jump to the conclusion that they are obligate carnivores - especially since many cats live very well (or even better) on plant-based diets.
2) We cannot jump to the conclusion that some cats cannot live on plant-based diets. We can say that some cats don't do well on the vegan cat food **that is available right now** (there really isn't much to choose from!).
3) Many people want to make it sound like either we run a risk by feeding our cats plant-based cat food - or we play it safe for the cats by feeding them meat-based food. But that is not true. Indeed, cat people run different risks by feeding their cats meat-based food: http://www.vegepets.info/
4) The vast majority of vets are not even willing to live vegan themselves. They don't know anything about vegan cat food. And they earn lovely money on selling meat-based cat food - (plus on consultation fees and medicine to mask the troubles that meat-based food often cause). Why would those vets feel motivated to learn about and teach people how to feed their cats plant-based food?!
I hardly ever see point 2, 3 and 4 addressed anywhere, and I find that frustrating."
----------------
-------
Gary L. Francione: The Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights Letizia Pallara: I apologize but this is getting tiresome. Dogs can live perfectly healthy lives on vegan diets. Our dogs have been vegans for decades and our last dog was 17 when he passed and the one before that was 19. And these were rescues who had health issues when we got them. As for cats, most processed cat foods have added taurine because the meat does not have a sufficient amount naturally. And there are vegan taurine supplements for cats. In any event, as far as I know, you are not a cat and you can live a perfectly healthy life as a vegan so if we are going to spend the day talking about your lack of knowledge about nutrition, forgive me if I don't participate.
Marianna Gonzalez It
is better to keep cats inside, or at the very most, in an enclosed
garden and under supervision. Being outdoors or roaming around the
neighborhood is *very* dangerous for the cat, and it is obviously
dangerous for other critters. The times my cats have
caught birds sadly spells that out. It is not natural to keep cats
inside too much, and they certainly love being outside and probably
suffer by being confined indoors, but that is one of the moral problems
of domestication where you have to choose the lesser evil.
http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/follow-up-to-pets-commentary-non-vegan-cats/
and this: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/animal-rights-and-domesticated-nonhumans/#.UaeaZ5xc18E
and this: http://bloganders.blogspot.no/2013/03/vegan-diet-for-dogs-and-cats-what-is.html
Also: FYI: http://www.farmedanimalfriends.org/1/post/2013/05/the-vegan-feline-can-my-feline-companion-be-a-vegan-by-laurie-jeffreys-dvm.html
On Vegan Cats:
I got a very interesting and informative PM on this subject this morning:
"Concerning cat nutrition:
1) I keep seeing people who call cats obligate carnivores. While cats are carnivore in nature, we cannot jump to the conclusion that they are obligate carnivores - especially since many cats live very well (or even better) on plant-based diets.
2) We cannot jump to the conclusion that some cats cannot live on plant-based diets. We can say that some cats don't do well on the vegan cat food **that is available right now** (there really isn't much to choose from!).
3) Many people want to make it sound like either we run a risk by feeding our cats plant-based cat food - or we play it safe for the cats by feeding them meat-based food. But that is not true. Indeed, cat people run different risks by feeding their cats meat-based food: http://www.vegepets.info/
4) The vast majority of vets are not even willing to live vegan themselves. They don't know anything about vegan cat food. And they earn lovely money on selling meat-based cat food - (plus on consultation fees and medicine to mask the troubles that meat-based food often cause). Why would those vets feel motivated to learn about and teach people how to feed their cats plant-based food?!
I hardly ever see point 2, 3 and 4 addressed anywhere, and I find that frustrating."
----------------
Marianna Gonzalez wrote: "I
will respectfully abstain from expressing my opinion about imposing a
vegan diet on an obligate carnivore, as my messages would get deleted
anyways hehehe "
Gary Francione reply:
: There is *nothing* about the life of a domesticated animal that we do not impose. That is the problem. And if a cat can live a healthy life without eating meat, and many can, there is no reason to feed the cat meat.
Gary Francione reply:
: There is *nothing* about the life of a domesticated animal that we do not impose. That is the problem. And if a cat can live a healthy life without eating meat, and many can, there is no reason to feed the cat meat.
--
Marianna
Gonzalez: I am not sure what the disagreement could be here. There are
some simple empirical questions. First, some people say that cats need
meat to get taurine. But it is a fact that most cat food manufacturers
ADD taurine because the processed
meat does not have enough. So, if that is the case, then the taurine
issue disappears because taurine is added in both (meat and vegan)
foods. Second, there is the question: can cats thrive on a vegan diet?
If the answer to that is "yes," then the moral issue would be easy: we
would have an obligation not to feed them other animals.
-------
General Comment: Sometimes (often) I feel that as we are laying the bricks to pave the way to a vegan world, some people are picking up the bricks are hurling them into the trash because in their opinion, the bricks belong in the trash...because they belong in the trash. It sucks.
General Comment: Sometimes (often) I feel that as we are laying the bricks to pave the way to a vegan world, some people are picking up the bricks are hurling them into the trash because in their opinion, the bricks belong in the trash...because they belong in the trash. It sucks.
----
Camilla Allegret Tabitha
Martin, if you care about the welfare of cats, you can't possibly feel
good about feeding them meat-based cat food, which is linked to many
diseases, including kidney, liver, heart, neurologic, visual,
neuromuscular and skin diseases, bleeding disorders, birth defects,
immunocompromisation and infectious diseases:
http://www.vegepets.info/diets/meat.html#toc12
Please educate yourself further on this great page made by a veterinarian who has specialized in cat and dog nutrition:
http://www.vegepets.info/
http://www.vegepets.info/diets/meat.html#toc12
Please educate yourself further on this great page made by a veterinarian who has specialized in cat and dog nutrition:
http://www.vegepets.info/
--
Camilla Allegret Margherita
Pasquini, you will never find *any* cat food that is proven 100 % safe.
There is no such thing in life as "proven 100 % safe". We all need to
do the necessary critical research and take the responsability for our
own choises. Try to ask yourself why you are willing to run the risk of
feeding your cats meat-based food - linked to many diseases as I pointed
out above - and take it from there.
Camilla Allegret If
someone has cats who die within two weeks after changing their diets, I
would say that something was done very, very wrong! That, however,
doesn't change the points I stated above about the risks of meat-based
cat food. Many cats live very well on plant-based diets. Fact. Some cats
experience improved health by changing from meat-based to plant-based
diets. Fact. (I have one example here with me).
Camilla Allegret I
fail to see which point you want to make concerning cat shelters. Most
cat shelters feed the cats meat-based food. Some feed the cats
plant-based food. No cat should ever have to be in a shelter. That is a
problem caused by domestication and irresponsability - not by veganism.
Gary L. Francione: The Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights Margherita Pasquini: I think you are ill-informed on the cat veganism issue but I am curious about whether you are yourself vegan. Can you tell me?
Gary L. Francione: The Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights Jeff Perz:
"Should" is a funny word here. I have said that it may be excusable to
feed a cat animal products if the particular cat cannot survive
otherwise. I have never said it's justifiable and the more I learn about
the matter, the more I am convinced that there are very few cats who
fall into that group.
8 hours ago · Like · 2
---Vegan cats:
Someone told me that there is a group that discusses vegan cats. It looks like a good place to get info on the topic.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/126322004672/
Someone told me that there is a group that discusses vegan cats. It looks like a good place to get info on the topic.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/126322004672/
-----
I think that there are serious ethical issues that must be considered
by letting cats wander unsupervised and kill other animals. I personally
would not allow my cats to be outside unsupervised if we had cats. It's
one thing when non-domesticated animals kill other animals. It's quite
another thing when we have domesticates living with us whom we allow to
kill. I also think that there are issues about cats getting hit by cars
and cats getting into fights with other cats and getting FIV, etc.
Domestication is a very bad idea precisely because of problems like this
and we need to think critically about how to deal with issues. But, in
my view, saying that cats will choose meat says nothing. Children will
eat nothing but candy if given the choice. So what?
-------
Camilla Allegret Taurine
is found in meat, but is degraded during processing, so even in
meat-based cat food synthetic taurine is normally added afterwards -
just like taurine is added to vegan cat food.
Try to take a look at the meat-based cat food that your vet sells. You will find an astonishing amount of vegetable ingredients, like cereals (sometimes the main ingredients), vegetable protein extracts, derivatives of vegetable origin, maize, rice, corn gluten meal, soybean oil ... Interesting, isn't it, that even the leading manufacturers of meat-based cat food find vegetables necessary - to feed someone who is "obligate carnivore".
Try to take a look at the meat-based cat food that your vet sells. You will find an astonishing amount of vegetable ingredients, like cereals (sometimes the main ingredients), vegetable protein extracts, derivatives of vegetable origin, maize, rice, corn gluten meal, soybean oil ... Interesting, isn't it, that even the leading manufacturers of meat-based cat food find vegetables necessary - to feed someone who is "obligate carnivore".
Gary L. Francione: The Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights Aingeal
Clare: It's not a case of whether cats share our sense of moral
disgust. It's a case of how *we* are obligated to behave in order to
accommodate the moral dilemmas created by domesticated animals. Neither
you nor Casey have even recognized those issues, much less addressed
them. I am afraid that the "it's natural" or "cats live by a different
set of rules" response in the context of domesticated animals really
does miss the point.
-------
Gary L. Francione: The Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights Casey Clague:
A polar bear does not prosper in a zoo. Many, many, many people have
vegan cats who do just fine. So the analogy fails. And nothing about the
life of a modern cat is "natural" in any meaningful sense of the word.
So claiming that we have to feed them meat (particularly when the
taurine must be added) really does not make any sense on any level.
Gary L. Francione: The Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights Frances Bailey: You state: "My cats always have been indoor cats, thank you very much. Please don't jump to conclusions about me."
I didn't. I merely responded to what *you* said earlier: "For me I think the difference is that most people I know couldn't go out an hunt their own rabbit - they just couldn't kill something themselves. Whereas cats all hunt for themselves and you couldn't stop them if you tried."
I didn't. I merely responded to what *you* said earlier: "For me I think the difference is that most people I know couldn't go out an hunt their own rabbit - they just couldn't kill something themselves. Whereas cats all hunt for themselves and you couldn't stop them if you tried."
------
Gary L. Francione: The Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights Fur
Paw Care, LLC: Vets know next to nothing about nutritional issues. I
still--in 2013--have vets tell me that it's unhealthy to have dogs on a
vegan diet. Just as human doctors, who are glorified drug company reps,
know little about human nutrition, vets, who are also glorified reps of
drug companies, are ill-informed about nutritional issues. Remember that
the drug industry is closely aligned with animal agriculture.
As for any site being "totalitarian" because it does not want you to promote this nonsense, let me say that I find it very odd that people think that they have some sort of "right" to barge into any space and say what they want and if others are not interested, they are being "totalitarian." No, they just disagree and they find certain views to be morally offensive.
Frankly, the opinion of vets, or Cornell Vet School, or any other vet school, is about as of much interest to me as the opinion of the pet food industry. Indeed, the two are very closely aligned.
As for any site being "totalitarian" because it does not want you to promote this nonsense, let me say that I find it very odd that people think that they have some sort of "right" to barge into any space and say what they want and if others are not interested, they are being "totalitarian." No, they just disagree and they find certain views to be morally offensive.
Frankly, the opinion of vets, or Cornell Vet School, or any other vet school, is about as of much interest to me as the opinion of the pet food industry. Indeed, the two are very closely aligned.
-----------
Elaine Pagano Sloan The
very nature of domestication implies that animals are no longer and can
no longer be thought of as they are in the wild. Domestication is and
of itself includes imposing ourselves on them. They are changed. It
has already been shown they can survive very well and be healthy on
vegan diets. Since they are domesticated animals already, we should
not feel "guilty" about this, in my opinion.
Gary L. Francione: The Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights Frances Bailey:
I am not saying that there are not all sorts of moral issues involved
in the mess we have created through domestication. I am making a simple
statement: if you live with feline companions and they can prosper on a
vegan diet, we are obligated not to give them animal products. Period.
The Vegan View I
think another point needing to be mentioned is that cats' nature does
not include meat & by products of the lowest quality from industrial
factory farming, junk additives, chemicals, colorings, and
preservatives ... even if one were to adhere to their "natural diet" it
would differ radically from the offerings on the commercial market.
Instead, they would be eating raw insects, lizards, rodents and birds,
grasses, weeds and the opportunistic occasional carrion. Nobody feeds
their cat on a diet such as that. All companion animal diets are
"unnatural." Given that, we have a choice - a cruelty-free unnatural
diet or a diet packed with cruelty (and likely a host of unwanted
additives). What is natural is irrelevant. A domesticated animal's
life is unnatural to begin with. Lets make the most of it, and choose
the more compassionate way to deal with it.
Michelle
Joyce Alison, I fail to see your point. Anyone who lets their cat
starve is irresponsable. That has nothing to do with veganism. And
everyone knows (or should know!) that one should never change a cat's
food overnight. It has to be done gradually.
---
Jennifer Mack I
am currently transitioning my cat to a vegan diet. She has been 50%
vegan for the past two weeks and is doing very well. We'll go 100% vegan
tomorrow. I was very much opposed to the idea, but my thinking has
changed over the last six months. Two things that changed my mind:
hearing a radio interview with someone who worked as a meat inspector
and talked about the diseased animal body parts being used for pet
foods. Also, I met a vegan veterinarian who has two cats who are vegan
and has helped numerous clients transition their cats as well. After
deciding to make the change, I learned that my regular vet is vegan as
well. He confirmed that meat-based pet food is composed of dead, dying,
diseased, decaying animal parts and beaks, feathers, claws, fur, hooves,
and various other bits and pieces not considered fit for human
consumption. Gary Yourofsky, who also worked in a slaughterhouse says
the same. Offal and scraps off the slaughterhouse floor is what they're
including in your beloved pet's food. So, I'm making the change, but am
carefully monitoring my kitty cat's health and watching the pH levels of
her urine as well. The risk is that the urine becomes too acidic, which
can be dangerous. It's much more risky for male cats, and I don't think
I would try it with a male.
---
Gary L. Francione: The Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights Jennifer Mack:
Good for you. <Also, I met a vegan veterinarian who has two cats who
are vegan and has helped numerous clients transition their cats as
well.> OMG, don't out this person. S/he will have his/her license
withdrawn! Also, the composition of commercial pet foods has been info
out there for a while now. You don't need to get it anedotally.
---
Gary L. Francione: The Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights Michelle Joyce Alison:
Cats, or at least many of them, do not need meet to thrive. Therefore,
it is not correct to call them obligate carnivores. I agree that people
should be careful and always get competent advice when switching a
companion's diet, but it is simply wrong to say that many cats do not do
just fine on a vegan diet.
---
Camilla Allegret Cats on *plant-based* diets:
Veterinarian Andrew Knight states: "Regular urine pH monitoring is also important to detect urinary alkalinisation, with its consequent potential for urinary stones, blockages and infections, that may result from a vegetarian diet in a small minority of cases. Urinary alkalinisation may be corrected via a range of dietary additives."
http://www.vegepets.info/diets/summary.html
Please note "in a small minority of cases". And please note "may be corrected via a range of dietary additives". Of course this has to be supervised. But there are also cats on *meat-based* diets who get those complications.
See here how to check pH levels:
http://www.vegepets.info/diets/veg_feline.html
See how to minimise the likelihood of alkalinisation, urolithiasis, FUS and urinary tract infections here: http://www.vegepets.info/diets/veg_feline.html
Cats on *meat-based* diets:
Veterinarian Andrew Knight states: "Diseases described in the scientific literature following long-term maintenance of cats and dogs on meat-based diets include kidney, liver, heart, neurologic, visual, neuromuscular and skin diseases, bleeding disorders, birth defects, immunocompromisation and infectious diseases".
http://www.vegepets.info/diets/meat.html#toc12
Could we please stop pretending that meat-based diets are safe for cats. They are *not*. Fact.
Many cats do very well on plant-based cat food. Fact.
Some cats have experienced health benefits by changing from a meat-based to a plant-based diet. Fact.
***Please*** do yourself the favour to *read* the information given in the above links. If your knowledge comes from the pet food industry and/or non-vegan vets - who have heavy monetary interests in maintaining cats (and dogs) on meat-based food - you are per definition not well informed.
Veterinarian Andrew Knight states: "Regular urine pH monitoring is also important to detect urinary alkalinisation, with its consequent potential for urinary stones, blockages and infections, that may result from a vegetarian diet in a small minority of cases. Urinary alkalinisation may be corrected via a range of dietary additives."
http://www.vegepets.info/diets/summary.html
Please note "in a small minority of cases". And please note "may be corrected via a range of dietary additives". Of course this has to be supervised. But there are also cats on *meat-based* diets who get those complications.
See here how to check pH levels:
http://www.vegepets.info/diets/veg_feline.html
See how to minimise the likelihood of alkalinisation, urolithiasis, FUS and urinary tract infections here: http://www.vegepets.info/diets/veg_feline.html
Cats on *meat-based* diets:
Veterinarian Andrew Knight states: "Diseases described in the scientific literature following long-term maintenance of cats and dogs on meat-based diets include kidney, liver, heart, neurologic, visual, neuromuscular and skin diseases, bleeding disorders, birth defects, immunocompromisation and infectious diseases".
http://www.vegepets.info/diets/meat.html#toc12
Could we please stop pretending that meat-based diets are safe for cats. They are *not*. Fact.
Many cats do very well on plant-based cat food. Fact.
Some cats have experienced health benefits by changing from a meat-based to a plant-based diet. Fact.
***Please*** do yourself the favour to *read* the information given in the above links. If your knowledge comes from the pet food industry and/or non-vegan vets - who have heavy monetary interests in maintaining cats (and dogs) on meat-based food - you are per definition not well informed.
----
Camilla Allegret Linda De Pasquale, I use Ami Cat (recommended by a vet).
You may find the group Vegan Cats useful. There are vegan vets connected. https://www.facebook.com/groups/126322004672/?fref=ts
You may find the group Vegan Cats useful. There are vegan vets connected. https://www.facebook.com/groups/126322004672/?fref=ts
Jennifer Mack I've
got Ami dry food and Evolution canned food. Canned food is much better
for your cat's health. Evolution has added taurine and is approved by
AAFCO as meeting the nutritional needs of cats at all life stages. My
cat likes the dark green Evolution can, not so much the olive green
colored can. I think it's Gourmet Entree.
Gary L. Francione: The Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights Camilla Allegret: Thank you for that longer post with the links. The information is very useful.
--
Camilla Allegret Gro
Ottesen, Taurine is found in meat, but is degraded during processing,
so even in meat-based cat food synthetic taurine is added afterwards -
just like taurine is added to vegan cat food.
Taurine can thus never be an argument for meat-based cat food.
Meat-based cat food is linked to many diseases, including kidney, liver, heart, neurologic, visual, neuromuscular and skin diseases, bleeding disorders, birth defects, immunocompromisation and infectious diseases:
http://www.vegepets.info/diets/meat.html#toc12
Please educate yourself further on this great page made by a veterinarian who has specialized in cat and dog nutrition:
http://www.vegepets.info/
Taurine can thus never be an argument for meat-based cat food.
Meat-based cat food is linked to many diseases, including kidney, liver, heart, neurologic, visual, neuromuscular and skin diseases, bleeding disorders, birth defects, immunocompromisation and infectious diseases:
http://www.vegepets.info/diets/meat.html#toc12
Please educate yourself further on this great page made by a veterinarian who has specialized in cat and dog nutrition:
http://www.vegepets.info/
--
Gary L. Francione: The Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights Fur
Paw Care, LLC: Based on your previous post, I am now confident that the
reaction you've received from other vegan pages has less to do with
their being "totalitarian" (what does that mean by the way? How can a
Facebook page, where people have the right of free association, be
"totalitarian"?) and more to do with you.
Anyway, if you want to worship academia, that's your business. I was once a tenured member of an Ivy League faculty (Penn) where they did (and do) tons of animal research and where the "experts" said that vivisection was absolutely necessary. Penn Vet School did (and does) tons of vivisection. But the "experts" must be right, eh? Okay, if you say so.
I am now a tenured, chaired faculty member at a large state university (Rutgers) where they do tons of animal research and where the "experts" say that vivisection is absolutely necessary. So the "experts" must be right, eh? Okay, if you say so.
Conventional medical education has been terribly resistant to veganism for humans and is still unwilling to recognize that the data support promoting a vegan diet. But the "experts" must be right, eh? Okay, if you say so.
The fact that conventional veterinary educators are hostile to veganism for cats is no surprise. You might want to inquire how much funding Cornell receives from pet food/animal ag interests. Anyway, if you want to think that the "experts" in academia are right on these matters, that's fine. I disagree.
Anyway, if you want to worship academia, that's your business. I was once a tenured member of an Ivy League faculty (Penn) where they did (and do) tons of animal research and where the "experts" said that vivisection was absolutely necessary. Penn Vet School did (and does) tons of vivisection. But the "experts" must be right, eh? Okay, if you say so.
I am now a tenured, chaired faculty member at a large state university (Rutgers) where they do tons of animal research and where the "experts" say that vivisection is absolutely necessary. So the "experts" must be right, eh? Okay, if you say so.
Conventional medical education has been terribly resistant to veganism for humans and is still unwilling to recognize that the data support promoting a vegan diet. But the "experts" must be right, eh? Okay, if you say so.
The fact that conventional veterinary educators are hostile to veganism for cats is no surprise. You might want to inquire how much funding Cornell receives from pet food/animal ag interests. Anyway, if you want to think that the "experts" in academia are right on these matters, that's fine. I disagree.
Karen Ryan Dear
Gary Francione.....thank you for all your information ...it's people
like you that makes this a sane humane world to which I continue to have
faith and hope and to live ( as well as my animals ) the TRUTH ...you
will always have my respect ~
Gary L. Francione: The Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights Letizia Pallara: I apologize but this is getting tiresome. Dogs can live perfectly healthy lives on vegan diets. Our dogs have been vegans for decades and our last dog was 17 when he passed and the one before that was 19. And these were rescues who had health issues when we got them. As for cats, most processed cat foods have added taurine because the meat does not have a sufficient amount naturally. And there are vegan taurine supplements for cats. In any event, as far as I know, you are not a cat and you can live a perfectly healthy life as a vegan so if we are going to spend the day talking about your lack of knowledge about nutrition, forgive me if I don't participate.
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