söndag 28 juli 2013

269life, djurens rättigheter, människors rättigheter, misantropi, vegan

269life är misantropiska.(innebär att man känner hat eller starkt ogillande mot mänskliga släktet)
Bl.a. skriver de: “The other part of the speciesist activists in our movement are the activists who also take part in human rights actions.”
Gary Francione bemötder detta bra:
From a portion of an email received this morning from the U.S.:
"Isn't it speciesism to work for human rights when so many animals suffer more than humans and because humans who get more rights will exploit more animals?"

My reply:
"The short version of my reply: absolutely not!

I have received a number of emails and private messages over the past few months asking versions of this question. I am puzzled as to the source of this recent interest, but I want to be clear that I find this way of thinking to be misanthropic (in addition to otherwise involving a lack of rational thought) and

I reject it entirely and unequivocally. The abolitionist approach is about recognizing that *all* forms of discrimination involve violence and violence is morally unjustifiable.
If someone works for the civil rights of people of color, is s/he racist because there are more white people numerically and, therefore, whites, many of whom suffer, present a situation of "more" suffering? Of course not. If someone works for LGBT rights, is s/he sexist because one might argue that as there are more women numerically and sexism is a serious problem, women suffer "more"? No, of course not.

I don't believe in ranking evils. Indeed, I find it an absolutely absurd exercise. If someone asks me: "Is the slaughter of animals worse than the Holocaust?," I always reply: "Was Hitler's killing of Jews worse than his killing of non-Jewish Poles or Romanies?" If someone asks me: "Is racism worse than speciesism?," I always reply: "Is racism worse than sexism?" Anyway, I won't play the "ranking evils" game. I reject *all* forms of hatred, discrimination, and violence whether involving humans or nonhumans. Period.

I applaud the efforts of all those who devote themselves to the struggle for social justice and the rights of minorities, women, children, disabled people, the elderly, the poor, etc. The world is full of suffering and injustice. I support the efforts of anyone who seeks justice and who promotes peace and nonviolence.

I just ask them all to be vegans as they fight for justice in whatever context they do so. If, for example, you are working for children's rights, you still have to eat and wear clothes. So be vegan and consume non-animal foods and don't wear animal products. Encourage others to be vegan and practice nonviolence with respect to animals. You can do that whatever other rights movement you are involved in. I have made this point in my writing. For example, see:

The idea that we should not promote human rights because humans will exploit more animals if they have more rights is beyond bizarre. On what empirical basis can we say that if X is the victim of racism, and we eliminate racism, X will exploit more animals? We can't. And even if there were an empirical basis to make this claim, which there isn't, to say that we shouldn't oppose racism because it will lead to more animal exploitation does not mean we shouldn't oppose racism. It just means that we should always make any fight for justice one that is squarely based on a philosophy of nonviolence that rejects all discrimination.
Thank you for writing."

Citat och se också kommentarerna i denna artikel: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=156275557725540&story_fbid=186054218185518 [Där det bl.a. finns en referens till 269lifes misantropi]

En annan artikel: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/do-abolitionists-have-a-position-on-human-rights-you-bet-we-do

Det här är mina tankar om 'open rescue'-aktioner: http://bloganders.blogspot.no/2013/05/are-vegans-justified-to-use-violence-to.html


Om man ska följa uttalandet från 269life så är det etiskt fel att kämpa emot rasism, sexism, etcetera. Jag menar motsatsen, det är vår etiska skyldighet att bekämpa all sorts våld och diskrimering. Jag tror de flesta också förstår att det är en bra sak att kämpa mot prostitution, kämpa för homosexuellas rättigheter, kvinnors rättigheter, osv, och att det är vår moraliska skyldighet att gripa in om t.ex. någon försöker våldta en kvinna av sexistiska motiv eller mörda en mörkhyad person av rasistiska anledningar, osv.

Jag håller med om denna princip:
”Just as we reject racism, sexism, ageism, and heterosexism, we reject speciesism. The species of a sentient being is no more reason to deny the protection of this basic right than race, sex, age, or sexual orientation is a reason to deny membership in the human moral community to other humans.”

Alltså, de har helt fel när de säger:
'speciesist activists in our movement are the activists who also take part in human rights actions.”'
och de skadar människor och även andra djur genom detta uttalande.
Misantropi, och hatiska inlägg från veganer, är ytterligare en "ursäkt" för människor att inte bli veganer.

Injustices anywhere, hurts everyone, everywhere.


Här är citatet i sin helhet som jag diskuterar:

The other part of the speciesist activists in our movement are the activists who also take part in human rights actions. This is a problematic and very crucial
issue that I don’t want to get into too much because it is another whole interview, but I have to mention it. It’s unacceptable for anyone who consider themselves a non-speciesist vegan person to promote human rights. Can anyone imagine a partisan who fights at noon to liberate Jews from concentration camps held by Nazis, and at night to make conditions for the Nazis better? It’s a contradiction. We, as people who are committed to justice, cannot ignore that contradiction. We need to understand that theoretically, animals deserve rights just as humans deserve rights. Theoretically we are all equal in the moral status, but in reality, human rights come at the expense of animal rights. It’s a fact. As the socio-economic situation of people improves, more animals are abused and murdered. As more countries become free and developed, the more we’ll see industrialized animal agriculture. [...] Helping humans won’t make them be more compassionate for animals, so let’s save the time and help directly to animals, that way we cannot lose. If this logic was true, all the rich people would be vegans, as they have very good socio-economic status” ~ 269life.
Och feltänket i detta resonemang adresseras här: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=156275557725540&story_fbid=186054218185518

När jag kämpar mot ideologin rasism och ideologin sexism, så deltar jag i ”human right actions”, och är enligt 269life en speciecist, och jag gör något som är etiskt fel.

Mitt resonemang ovan är:
Om vi förstår att det är rätt att ingripa när någon blir våldtagen av sexistiska skäl, måste vi också förstå att det är etiskt rätt att arbeta mot ideologin av sexism, och att vi också har en skyldighet att upplysa sexistiska människor om dessa tankegångar t.ex. kommer upp i en diskussion.
Allt våld och diskriminering är självklart fel oavsett anledning.

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